I do not cast any aspersion on any planning authority in Scotland, and certainly, and specifically, not on the planning authority of West Lothian. But my experience teils me that sometimes small burghs feel that they do not get as good planning as they would like. They probably feel that they are thought of as humble, and planning takes place more with regard to economy than with regard to amenities.
I am sure that this is not the case with West Lothian, and I am not suggesting it for a moment. Probably it is not the case with any planning authority in Scotland. But I quite understand that small burghs may feel a little restive, and when they grow to the size of Grangemouth I am perfectly certain that they would feel much happier if they were responsible for their own planning. My Lords, I will speak only briefly. By allowing the Bill a Second Reading, your Lordships will be taking the view, with which the Government agree, that there should be an opportunity for its merits and demerits to be further examined.
The Select Comimittee, of course, will hear the views both of the promoters and of the objectors and it will be open to the Committee to reject all or any part of the Bill after careful examination. It is clear that, though they are the first to seek such a change, Grangemouth are nevertheless taking the steps that it was expected would be taken when the Act was passed.
It has been suggested by several noble Lords, including my noble friend Lord Colville of Culross, in a typically well-informed speech, that the Government should institute a full inquiry into the structure of local government in Scotland.
The Governmen't are not committed to any such inquiry, and it would be wrong for me to commit them in the 75 context of this Bill. I do not deny, however, that in the light of the Toot-hill Report, and the emphasis which must be placed in the future on economic growth, an examination of the Scottish local government system may well be necessary. But I agree with my noble and learned friend, Lord Reid, that the possiblity of such an examination should not be allowed to hold up the proper consideration of practical proposals considered urgent in particular areas.
The Government do not express any views on the merits of the case at this stage. If your Lordships give the Bill a Second Reading, my right honourable friend will follow the normal practice of making a Report to the Select Committee. I hope that your Lordships will decide to follow the usual practice on this occasion and allow this Bill to proceed. My Lords, perhaps I may say a few words in reply on this Bill. First of all, there may have been a little surprise in some quarters that I did not make a speech in moving that the Bill be read a second time.
May I therefore explain that it is not customary for the Chairman of Committees to make a speech in moving the Second Reading of any Private Bill? If he apprehends that there is sufficient opposition to the Bill to make it possible or likely that the Bill might be rejected, then it is his duty to secure some other Member of your Lordships' House to be an advoca'te on the Second Reading of the Bill.
Today, although I was aware that several Members of the House wished to comment on this Bill, I was informed, in response to inquiries, that no Member wished to move the rejection of this Bill and, so far as I could ascertain, that no Member wished to prevent its having a Second Reading.
Therefore, in moving the Second Reading without any comment I followed custom, and if I unwittingly embarrassed the noble Lord, Lord Greenhill, by so doing, I apologise to him.
However, I did send him a note warning him of what I was going to do, and I hope therefore that I was not wrong. Incidentally, may I say how glad I am to see him back after his illness? There are very few things I want to say in reply to this debate. Another 76 point which perhaps your Lordships may be a little curious about is this. How comes it, you may ask, that a Private Bill, related wholly to Scotland, is moved on the Floor of the House, whereas in almost every case the Bill proceeds in Scotland by a Provisional Order and not by Private Bill?
It may be of interest if I explain that under the Private Legislation Procedure Scotland Act, , the normal course is for Bills which are on all fours with Private Bills in England to proceed instead in Scotland by a Provisional Order.
But there are provisions in that Act which provide that where the Provisional Order procedure is objeoted to, an appeal can be made to the Chairman of Ways and Means and myself. If, in our opinion, a sufficient case is made out for the Bill to proceed not by Provisional Order, but by Private Bill, then we so decide. I may mention that that happened in this case. There was a controversy about the procedure to be adopted. Some of the petitioners against the Bill were of the opinion that part of the Bill should proceed by Private Bill and part by Provisional Order.
To cut the story short, I may say that we decided—I hope rightly—that the whole Bill should proceed by way of Private Bill procedure. I have explained why there are so few Private Bills from Scotland on the Floor of the House; but once that decision is taken—and it was taken in February—the Bill proceeds in exactly the same way as any other Private Bill.
The fact that it comes from Scotland is henceforward irrelevant. I may add that in deciding whether it should proceed by Private Bill or by Provisional Order the two questions which the two Chairmen have to bear in mind are: first, whether it relates to matters outside Scotland—and in this case that, of course, did not apply; and secondly, whether it relates to matters which are "of such novelty and importance" those are the exact words that it ought to be dealt with by a Private Bill.
So I was comforted to hear the opinion of the noble and learned Lord, Lord Reid, that this was at any rate a question of novelty, if not of importance, and I hope we came to the right decision.
That is how the Bill comes here to-day. Having said that, may I say this? So far as I am aware, beyond that point there is nothing about this Bill which is 77 unusual. The fact that it is opposed is, of course, not unusual at all. That leads me to say this. Throughout this debate, with the exception of the noble Lord who has just sat down, who expressed no opinion on the merits of the Bill, every speaker, so far as I can tell, has been on the whole in favour, if not of the Bill's becoming law, at least of its being referred to a Select Committee.
I should just like to say what will happen. The Bill will go to a Select Committee in the ordinary way. The fact that it is a Scottish Bill, as I have said, makes no difference. The Committee is to sit soon under the Chairmanship of the noble Lord, Lord Hughes—and I should like to say this because the debate has been so onesided this afternoon. It is my province to protect the interests of the opponents of this Bill alike with the interests of the promoters. I am told that the Committee stage of the Bill may occupy anything from ten to fourteen days, which may be some indication to your Lordships that the real debate may not be quite so one-sided as it has been this afternoon.
Your Lordships will not be surprised to hear that those six petitioners are likely to have quite a little to say about this Bill upstairs. There is one other detail which I think I might mention. I should like to make a slight correction there. I do not think there is any difference with this Bill, so I am saying, with some confidence, that Government Departments cannot give evidence before Private Bill Committees.
The procedure is that Government Departments—and no doubt the Scottish Office will follow the usual procedure—make a report to the Committee on the Bill. The Committee consider the report.
The report is either considered by the Select Committee, or by myself later. I wanted to say that it is not proper for any Government Department to give evidence on oath on a Private 78 Bill Committee. I hope noble Lords will forgive me if I make that small correction. Those are the only comments that I should like to make in reply to this debate. Photograph of the Health Centre courtesy of Greig Robertson.
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